Gary's Ayahuasca experiences and the 'just do it' energy for pushing ahead with ideas

In this episode I'm very pleased to meet with my friend Gary who I met on an Ayahuasca Retreat (Acsauhaya.org) in March 2020 just before the world shutdown due to covid.

We talk about his ceremony experiences, how the learnings helped give him a 'just do it' energy into his life, how he put his big ideas into practice, how he left his job, ended up merging 2 rival companies and then selling the new company.

We also talk about integrating back into life after Ayahuasca, connecting with healthy masculinity, living in the present and changes in beliefs.

Listen on Spotify, iTunes, Amazon Music, Podcast Addict.

TRANSCRIPT

Chris: [00:00:00] This podcast is for thinkers and problem solvers.

Chris: So I'm here with Gary and we met on an Ayahuasca ceremony in Holland, March 2020. Yeah. What drew you to that, that experience and taking Ayahuasca?

Gary: Uh, that's a good question. I, um I think I was 37 when I went to my first Ayahuasca ceremony and I guess, uh, uh, of all the different things I've done, we kind of label it as self-improvement we were talking earlier. I think the first thing I did was a 31. I got hypnotherapy for smoking. Um, I'd given up smoking on 20 a day. Uh, got really interested in, [00:01:00] in idea of hypnotherapy, you know, read a bit a about it, did some training, um, uh, I lost loads of weight and then I started to, um, I've always been quite ambitious in my career and I will talk about that a bit later on, but I, uh, I kind of felt like I was getting to a point where, um, it wasn't really my talent that was going to hold me back or my intelligence.

Gary: It was, it was stress levels and how I dealt with stress and anxiety. Um, so I started reading lots of books and, um, you had to do lots of podcasts, um, and. Just randomly. I think I had just left. I've been in Newcastle for 10 years. I left that job. I'd moved down to, down to the south and had not been long in my job in my daily life.

Gary: And I'd gone out with some friends in Birmingham and the night after I had paper hung over and I ended up going to, um, I ended up missing my stop and ended up in the centre of London. So I had to get an Uber back to where I was, and I just started talking to this random taxi driver and he said, oh, have you tried Ayahuasca.

Gary: And, uh, I said, no. And he started talking about it. And he said, go and watch a Joe Rogan podcast. And, um, I watched it and, um, it was, what was really interesting about is because it's quite a. I guess it's a bit of an out there concept, but watching someone like Joe Rogan and like quite, not mainstream, but fairly straight up people really discuss it and discuss it with a lot of passion.

Gary: The idea really took me quite quickly, but if I'm honest, it probably took about four months to actually go. Um, there was an idea. Uh, it was still felt like a pretty brutal thing to do. And probably one of the biggest jumps off a cliff, I think I've ever done and ever will. But, so, yeah. So I think, but the idea over that four months just really formed.

Gary: And then I think I probably probably booked it just in the new year, like in January and then went in March and and that's when we met. [00:03:00] So yeah. So yeah, so it was after a good few years of, of self-improvement, but the time just felt right to do the Aya.

Chris: Yeah and wonderful place for it, uh, where we went, um, really kind people, um, You want to tell us a little bit about that experience you had there?

Gary: Yeah, I mean, I've talked about, I've been three times. I've always been to the same place. I don't really have a basis for comparison. Um, there's quite a lot of, uh, documentaries and things on Netflix about Ayahuasca and, and, um, some of it feels, uh, quite intense don't get me wrong with this, this, this, this is really intense wherever you do it.

Gary: It's, uh, it's, it's, it's incredibly intense, but, um, the location where we went. Uh, it was just from the moment you got there. It was kind of on the farmhouse, our farmhouse in the middle of nowhere, it was just a, and you get there and you meet with people. And I don't know whether we support people or hosts, where if you want to call them and they meet you.

Gary: And it just, there's just an [00:04:00] immense feeling of like peace and love. And it's great. And you know, if anything, you know, from, from the weekend, you, you get a. You get a weekend of just sort of really chilling out and finding peace. So it's a great set and great people. Yeah. You know, I don't think anyone that's done, I asked her would, would tell you that they weren't a bit nervous or a bit anxious.

Gary: And, you know, I couldn't think of a bad setting or bad people, you know, to really make it feel, um, don't get me wrong. I was still shitting to myself. Yeah. I think, um, yeah, you couldn't really ask for a better environment to go deep into yourself.

Chris: And, uh, yeah. Tell us a bit about the experience. Mine was really difficult, but beautiful. But. But yeah. Tell us a little bit about the ceremony.

Gary: Yeah, to be honest, I mean, things could be wrong, but the highlight of the weekend is I saw that the times I went, I did like a three-day there's a three-day retreat. So you go day one, you go [00:05:00] there, you meet with people.

Gary: You do like an intention setting as well. So you meet with like a, I would say that the hosts, these are people that are. You know that they've worked with the medicine before and, um, they're there to really support you through the weekends. So they ask you about your intentions and, you know, most people are going there for a sort of specific reason, or, you know, maybe they're dealing with some trauma or they've got some, some issues and, and, you know, so I think they let you share those and then, but they're very keen to.

Gary: Um, yeah, they're very keen to sort of say it's more of an intention rather than expectation, you know, I think they used to use that terminology quite a lot. So you set that out. And then the first time that I went, it was because it was pre pre the lockdown pre pandemic. Um, they'd actually flown the sharmans over from, from south America, um, that, that.

Gary: The next two times I've been, um, because of the lockdown, it was more of a spiritual session for the first session. So, so after you set your intention, you then go back and you go into that a year as a big tent. [00:06:00] Um, and you, uh, and you talk about your intention with the shamans and they talk about, uh, you know, how they're going to work with the medicine with you to really help you realize your intentions.

Gary: And of course, you know, that's just really kind of raises the, the kind of anticipation again, because. Yeah, these people are. Yeah, really serious about that work. And, you know, you feel like you're kind of in the presence of something pretty amazing and that's before you've even started and then yeah, as a group, I mean, that's the other thing I would say is, I mean, you, and I mean, what two years ago, you know, we, we've probably spoken to each other and we've probably seen each other.

Gary: This is the second time I've ever seen each other. And then we, yeah. And like, Yeah, well, we've spoken on the phone a few times throughout the weekend. You build this connection and that connection really starts to build before the first night, because especially the people that have been there for the first day are going there for the first time.

Gary: They, you know, everyone's really, um, Yeah, kind of going through the same together and, um, but yeah, and then you go into the [00:07:00] know you go into, to do the actual ceremony and, um, we lost about six hours and everyone has a really different experience. I find, um, mine, uh, you know, some people, uh, I don't know, think it's reflective of personality, where some people are quite loud and there's a lot of purging and it's a really big, dramatic experience, whereas I've always been.

Gary: Um, it's been quite sort of personal, quite calm, quite quiet experience. Um, but internally, you know, every single time. So, you know, I've been three times, but that means I've drunk six times, two nights, and every single time about a complete kind of shift in, in my perspective. So although for me, it's never been.

Gary: Yeah. You hear some of the stories about yeah. The big purging and the big, you know, the, the big resume. Yeah. I've never really had that, but equally every single time I've had this huge shift and huge realisation and a huge moment. So it's, um, Yeah, it is different for everyone. And I think [00:08:00] the other thing is while you do all those very personal experience and, um, you do sort of almost feel quite connected to other people in the room as well.

Gary: It's an energy. You can't really describe it. Um, yeah, I dunno. I've seen. Know, I don't know about you, but I think throughout that weekend, you do build this incredible connection with other people. When you just have this, I think just generally you get a real connection with sort of humanity and the human consciousness and you just definitely, although you're really working on yourself, you kind of want everyone else to do a really good job as well.

Gary: So it's a special, really special. Yeah, absolutely. And, um, you know, everyone has a really different experience. Um, And it is a, it's a very personal thing you go to work on, on personal stuff. So. Yeah. So yeah.

Chris: Yeah. Nice. Yeah. I went down the route of a, not food choice of a lot of sick and a lot of crying. Um, but yeah, different to everyone. Um, and [00:09:00] yeah, you just, like you say, you were saying about personality, you just can't tell like, sometimes. Um, I've seen a small lady drink, four glasses of Ayahuasca and not really go under, but then I had one on my first time and I was out. Probably eight hours on that time and just completely out of it.

Gary: Yeah. I think generally I'm quite big guy, but, um, so it usually takes me quite a lot to get under, but then I tend to go longer than most people. So, you know, once the ceremony kind of stops at the end, I tend to sort of have another hour and a half still kind of continuing my journey. So you're right.

Gary: It's different for everybody. And, and again, I think, um, Yeah, it's always, why do sound sound like a pronoun, but like, you know, say to never be like, self-conscious when you're there, you know, you kind of just doing your own thing and everyone's just so good. And everyone's so respectful of everyone else's journey.

Gary: It's just, you don't have to feel worried about how you express yourself. If it's quiet, if it's [00:10:00] loud, if you throw enough. Yeah. Yeah, you can just, everyone just wants everyone to, to have a really kind of successful journey, but you're right. It's different for everyone. And people go for different reasons and they come with different answers as well as they leave with different answers so it's a very personal thing.

Chris: Yeah, definitely. So tell us a bit about, um, the reasons or, um, whether it was curiosity or what brought you to try it. And maybe if you will. Um, some other things you experienced or how it, how it helped you move forward in life or, or gave you what you were looking for?

Gary: Yeah, well, they have, uh, they have a, uh, a say in that the mother Ayahuasca got the plant medicine to talk about it being like a, kind of a very female, uh, energy and, and, um, and they will say like, yeah, mother.

Gary: It doesn't mean we never give you what you want, but always give you what you need. And that was pretty much how I, so I went in there. I I'd had, you know, quite a lot of, [00:11:00] um, I've always struggled with like Ian and my weight and stuff like that. And I've done a really good job in, in, in finding a good diet looking after myself.

Gary: And I just felt like something was niggling in the background. And I just felt like I just wanted to get rid of it, everything. It felt like a struggle. And, um, I just wanted to get rid of it and it kind of, um, I guess for me, what really came out was this, this, uh, And I think I've, I've read a lot about this lately and I've made a lot more sense of it.

Gary: It felt like it made sense at the time as well though. Um, but I think part of me was I've always been a bit of an overthinker and, um, and this was just. I just kind of had this and I don't think it was sponsored by Nike or anything like that, but I just had this kind of overwhelming thought of just do it, you know, don't, don't wait for this thing to be gone.

Gary: Don't wait for you to be done. Don't wait for things to fall into place. Just do it, just get on with it. And, and although probably to people listening that doesn't sound like a massive [00:12:00] realization, it will be for us like an expensive, yeah, not a, not a lot for a, for a lot of money, but. Yeah, for me, that was quite a big thing.

Gary: So I tended to overthink things and, um, at the time, if we realized how significant it was, but at the same time, I felt this sense of freedom. And I think, although every time I've been, um, I've got a, uh, I I've, I've got that kind of the answer to a question or a shift in perspective, you also get this incredible, um, like connection with, uh, with like nature and humanity and the spirituality.

Gary: And, and actually the irony is, is when you start making that connection, the problem that you kind of go with almost feels a bit insignificant. Yeah. Um, and so, yeah, so I just got this kind of overwhelming. Stop waiting around, you know, just go and grab stuff and just.

Chris: Was very much like an energy and a feeling. And, uh, and it just, it's hard to explain how you believe can change in one night or in a few [00:13:00] hours.

Gary: Yeah, I was never really, I wouldn't say I've got a particular religious, spiritual belief now, but definitely, you know, Fell things and saw things that, you know, made me believe in something that was sort of bigger than myself.

Gary: And, um, it's yeah, it's hard to explain, but I, I suppose from my point of view, it was just nice to it was, it was nice to, it was almost nice to feel insignificant. Yeah. It was nice to like, you know, it felt like if I could feel that insignificant in the universe and my problems felt even smaller.

Gary: So I think it was. Yeah, the two kind of the whole, just do it, just get on with it and this sort of feeling of being connected to something sort of huge,

Chris: Perspective.

Gary: Yeah. It was just really helped me kind of move on and, um, sort of afterwards. Yeah, that, that definitely, that definitely came up. I think, um, the other thing that massively reconciled with is, uh, is, is the [00:14:00] sort of the cycle of life and death, life and death as well, you know?

Gary: That's a deep down. I read a lot about it. I think we're all secretly shit scared of dying. And that, that has a massive impact on, um, Yeah on decisions we make subconsciously. And I just, I don't know. I can't even, I can't explain that slippery. Wasn't really a thought process by just have this massive comfort with dying.

Gary: I didn't want to die. Obviously. I kind of gave me more of a zest for life, but I kind of just had this, I don't know. I just had this reconciliation with, oh, we're going to die and it's just part of life and it's okay. And, um, and again, I suppose that. That intern logically has helped me probably just be a bit more playful in life and be able to get on with things.

Gary: But yeah, so a lot of like, yeah, a lot about being a human being, part of a bigger race, part of nature, a lot of stuff to do with death and probably stuff that in my darker, yeah. Quieter moments. I would never want it to think about sort of stuff you don't really like to [00:15:00] think about.

Chris: It's kind of like that avoiding we're avoiding it all the time and that fear of death and also fear of the worst could happen. Um, just a lot of fear, but I kind of go through that with that session, that ceremony it's you feel it? Or, and he feel a warmth and all these things there's of interconnectivity interconnectiveness and it just feels like, I mean, I'd sort of say it's a bit like everything is probably how it's supposed to be a bit and it would be okay. Um, yeah, it's hard to put in words though, isn't it?

Gary: Yeah. And I think every time I've been, I've almost had this high rebirth experience, you know, it's, um, sometimes it's been more obvious than others, but yeah, definitely this whole idea of, of, of sort of being reborn and also this idea that, you know, the way.

Gary: So of nature, you know, develops and how evolution works and how we developed as a, as a, as a world, not just the human race is just basically by [00:16:00] sort of dying and living all over again. And you're dying and rebuilt yet. You know, death is as much part of the creative process as being born. Um, yeah, it's hot and I'll get deep.

Gary: When I talk about, I just think sort of. Realisations at the time, but what's, I think what's really weird and we talked about it. Oh yeah. But, um, yeah, I've lived the majority of my life in my head and all of a sudden I started to feel my energy become a bit more, you know, in the kind of the heart space.

Gary: And again, you know, people that sort of practice meditation a lower, it's not really a big deal, but for me, that was a massive shift and you start me and it's almost like you start making sense of stuff without actually having to make sense of it. You know, it doesn't have to go through the kind of the.

Gary: Yeah. So you do get a lot of stuff really came out. Um, I think certainly the first time you do it, the first time you're experiencing some of these kind of thought processes is quite overwhelming. Definitely. If I remember with, cause with you, it was a. I think there was other [00:17:00] you, or maybe one other person that had done it before.

Gary: So I think I don't have to remember you'd signed up late and, um, it was like, everyone had heard about you coming and it was like, he's done it before. So when you turned up, you were like this guru or the new view. So we're kind of looking at you as,

Chris: yeah. Well, I felt like a bit, like I've got a bit of a role to play here, like, um, cause it is a bit scary and, and just to, just to be a presence going, um, These guys that are doing it are sound they're really kind and it's going to be okay. Just to have a little bit of that energy. It kind of made me step up. So I wasn't thinking about myself and being scared. I think so.

Gary: Yeah. I don't think the two times after the I've been, um, I've definitely felt like there's a role to play there and, um, you don't want to sort of start telling people what it's going to be like, because part of the.

Gary: Finding out for yourself, but at the same time that you do want it. And also I think probably the [00:18:00] anticipation and the nervousness is part of the fun too. Um, but I think, yeah, I think just helping people kind of make, make sense of it and, you know, just fit in. Okay. But, uh, yeah, I definitely remember that, that, that for the first time was very different. Um, all three times have been great for the F the first time. Yeah. Some of the stuff you, you kind of learn about things is just, um, yeah. There's uh, yeah.

Chris: So you, um, experienced, uh, some visions and the time did you notice the time that time seem to go on forever? Like a, like a repeating dream almost. Um, did you, did you get many visions or, um, in, in the ceremony, did you experience any of that? Um, Some people talk to beings and stuff like that, but, um, yeah. What was the, what was your actual experience? Just, just talking around it a little bit.

Gary: Yeah, there was, [00:19:00] yeah. I mean, it's a lot of officials, um, you know, mark. Yeah, so done psychedelic stuff before, and there's a, you know, I can be quite visual person.

Gary: I tend to think I've got quite decent imagination. Um, so yeah, so the lot of it was quite visual for me, but a lot of feelings as well, you know, you see, you kind of relive a lot of, you know, even the stuff you relive, you didn't mean I didn't really live it visually. You sort of relive it emotionally. And, um, I think, I think the first couple of times went. Um, I cried, but the second two retreats. Seemed to be, my perch was just like uncontrollable, sobbing. I'm a person that doesn't cry. Um, and now the thing is I take my son to the cinema and it's like, literally from the first minute, I'm just like balling my eyes out um, but yeah, the time. So in the, in the ceremonies my purging was kind of crying.

Gary: So yeah. So lots of, lots of visuals, but then lots of, yeah, just lots of feelings and, um, uh, I, I didn't see, I noticed, uh, being, um, I've had a lot of, [00:20:00] yes, the other two times I've been, um, I've had some interactions with family members and things like that, which is good, but they were kind of beings I knew, but yeah, lots of people see, you know, the mother, the mother and things like that. But for me, that never came up, but it's uh, yeah, it was more, the visuals tend to be like geometric shapes and there was, um, a few times, like the way they decorate. Yeah, it's quite smart in that there's a few snakes kind of knocking about, and you know, this, this is thing it's like a jaguar in that things.

Chris: I remember. They said, I don't know if it was that on. The shaman said, oh, if you see a jaguar or a snake, don't worry. That's the, um, they're the beings. They're the animals that represent Ayahuasca and thought. Oh,

Gary: Take your pick. Yeah. So yeah, lots, lots of visual stuff. But then, um, and yeah, I mean time, it just becomes, uh, just a real messed up concept is [00:21:00] like, Because it usually took me quite a while to get on the like, um, or get into it. Um, yeah, 10 times tend to go quite slowly and then it'd go quite quickly and then it goes slowly, but you tend to lose, you lose, you lose all concept of time when you're in that good thing.

Chris: Yeah. Yeah. I remember it feeling like it was just that restarting all the time and it was going on forever. Um, but I felt like maybe that was part of it. So like you keep repeating it until you change your habit and, and yeah, it's interesting. What you're saying about being like the purging might have been more emotional as that's made me think about what my experience was like. It was about it's quite bodily. It was quite emotional.

Chris: Um, and I think, yeah, for other people it's more beings. Different type of spiritual, but yeah. So when you, um, got back to your day to day life, how was that? What [00:22:00] was, um, integration like, and, and tell us a bit about putting into practice that the energy that just do it energy.

Gary: Yeah. Well, I think it's always, I think whenever you talk about an experience after the occasion year, you always kind of line out a lot more logically. I think I just. I just felt a lot more like connected with the world and, um, the, the, just do it thing was kind of, it was, it was almost a bit at the time. It was all. Okay. Yeah. Fair enough. As an easy thing to say. Um, so it wasn't really, until I started to get back into my life, um, and obviously those opportunities to just do it, start to present themselves. And then of course I started to make decisions. Start to do things and think very differently than I had done before. Um, the, I mean, the first thing that obviously happened was literally, I think, a week after, uh, I think it was that I was actually working in Belgium at the time and, um, have settled, I think I'd left the retreat, gone back to work.

Gary: And [00:23:00] then that Friday, Was, it was like the last, last chopper outside gone, trying to get home. Cause it cause the whole world went into lockdown. Of course. So of course, yeah, straight away. I'm now in a situation where, and I'd only been, I'd left my job for like 10 years. I've been in this job six months, you know, the whole industry I was in of came crashing down quite quickly.

Gary: So I'm like, am I gonna lose my job? And like everyone else, you know, it was, it was just this kind of incredible, like what the fuck moment? And. You know whether or not it was the universal wall, but it just fell out that that was, you know, I'd been on my Ayahuasca experience the week before. And, um, so the, I think the other benefit of that is a bit like everyone at the start of that locked down in the UK, it was, uh, you know, the, the weather was beautiful. No one had anything to do and everyone was just out in nature.

Gary: So I kind of have this, this real opportunity to. Yeah. It really strengthened that connection. And I think the first thing that happened was, uh, after about two weeks, um, anyone that knows me, I', like, I was like [00:24:00] the biggest meateater ever. And yeah, my Facebook was like, yeah, my memories are all full of like you know, fillet steak and, things like that. And I turned vegetarian, literally, just like that. I had this kind of a vision. I was a dead fish. And, uh, I don't know whether I had to kind of have to have this empathy for animals and whatever it was.

Gary: I thought, well, I'm a vegetarian. And it was like, for me, you know, because of my reputation of being a meat eater and my family ate meat and people didn't speak well of vegetarians and. An old version of me. I know it's not a big thing to any vegetarian, but an old version of me would have thought of every reason not to do it. Eventually found a reason not to do it. And I just, I just did it and I still am to this day. And it just, it felt right. And it was just, it was like the first thing where I've gone, right. This feels right. There's loads, loads of logical reasons not to do it, but I'm going to do it.

Gary: Um, and then I had, um, uh, and then I had, um, sort of my, I guess my big vision, if you like. So, um, [00:25:00] I've been I've left. My, the old industry I was in, I'd been there for like 10 years. And, um, I sort of had a bit of experience in terms of buying and selling companies, building up companies and buying them and selling them. And I'd worked with a couple of these family businesses in my old industry.

Gary: I'd moved on. Um, but I started talking to, um, I just had this vision that I just, I needed to kind of merge these two companies together and they'd be a lot stronger together. They didn't really like each other. Um, had never really been in a room together. They were fierce competitors, what they did. And it was just a really ridiculous idea that would never work while I thought, you know, what, if this has to happen.

Gary: And I remember speaking to, you know, and I spoke to both sets of shareholders from these two different businesses and they both had the same opinion of me, which was, that's a really stupid idea what the fuck you're talking about. And. And I just, I dunno, I just, I think it was almost like, I can't even remember having the conversations, but I remember it [00:26:00] felt very passionately about it and, you know, sort of processed what those guys would get out of it and sort of within 24 hours at both contacted me and said, yeah, we want to have a chat about it.

Gary: And, um, yeah. And it was, and again, I think going through the whole thing, I think an older version of myself would have, or a younger version of previous version of myself, talk to myself out of it would have found a reason why it wasn't gonna work. And, you know, decided that, you know, it got, if I failed at something that, you know, that'd be the end of my life.

Gary: And whereas I just had this complete different view. I was like, do you know what I, this is such a crazy idea. It's probably never going to work, but I watched the worst. They're going to happen. You're going to go on a bit of a ride and have fun with it. And, uh, yeah, without getting so detailed about it, you know, a year later, we we'd managed to bring the two businesses together.

Gary: I left my job. Took a bit of a pay cut and it all fell a bit it all fell a bit farfetched, which to be fair probably was. But I was like now I'm going to do it. [00:27:00] Yeah, so I did, I left my job and, we kind of bought the two businesses together and the idea was that we'd bring them together, we'd build them up. After a few years, we would probably sell them for more money than, than what they would've got at our time.

Gary: And, well, long story short, we, we managed to do it in four months and we sold the businesses and, you know, the two families did really what AF and, uh, And know I did. Okay. It as well as well, you know, it's sort of life-changing life-changing situation for me as well. So. Obviously the way I tell the story it's it sounds like he was quite easy, but it was just like, it was brutal.

Gary: It was, it was long days. It was lots of doubting. It was lots of like, what the fuck have I done? It was, um, but at the same time, it was just on the line belief that even if, even if it didn't cross the line, I was still better for it. You know, it was that whole idea of failure in whatever form would never be a bad thing.

Gary: It [00:28:00] kind of kept me going. And also there was just not, I sort of almost became addicted to being really uncomfortable with life and which was so unlike me, you know, she used to leave a very comfortable, very safe life. And I started to really just enjoy the fact that, you know, Yeah, you could put yourself in a situation where you might fail or is really uncomfortable and, you know, just that you do get addicted to granite growing out of that situation, but yeah.

Gary: Yeah. So it was a real kind of, it was a pretty wild six months drove myself into the ground, but it was, yeah, it was, the vision was, was, it was kind of complete. And I think we, um, Um, pretty much, I think it was like 18 months to the day or something like that, that I'd been on the IRS Coursera. And either we actually sold the business.

Gary: Yeah. It was, there was, there was something in the date, but it was, it was yeah. Linked back to that IRS ceremony. It was, it was, it was a pretty cool moment.

Gary: Oh, nice. Um, so yeah, you sort of like everything lined up and you're able to sort of see the opportunity to go for them, [00:29:00] even though it took a lot of work.

Gary: Um, cause I think some people feel. I hi, Alaska would just change things just like that. But it's more about changing your way of seeing stuff. Isn't it, or opening up. Um, you still have to do the, do the work

Gary: before, but it was quite a lot. And, you know, I think when I told the story a few times, Yeah, it sort of sounds, it sounds a lot better when I say, oh, I have this vision and I had this idea, but actually when I, when I've reflected where I've had the idea for years, I had the ideas, you know, when I was working in industry previous.

Gary: Yeah. I think I'd even be presented at once is this is what we need to do. Um, but I, and I probably had this idea. It probably wasn't odd for me to have the idea. Um, the idea was quite logical. It was an idea that I would logically come up with. But I think what really changed is probably every single time I'd had the idea in the past, I've gone, that’s a fucking stupid idea, you know, and, and what really changed was this idea of, well, why not?[00:30:00]

Gary: Yeah, you kind of have this different perception of the world and, you know, it's full of possibilities and, you know, the concept of failing is just, it's just okay. You know, it's just, it's just, it will be okay. And, uh, again, that doesn't sound like a big deal, but for me it was, it was a real kind of real shift.

Gary: Um, and, um, yeah, so th I think it's, yeah, to your point, I don't think. I think, I think magical things didn't happen. Ask up. I think it's more about, I just don't think it hands it to you want to play. I think it probably gives you a slightly different way of looking at the world and yet you still have to work hard, then you still have to know yourself and that's not just work hard in terms of not doing long hours and the traditional sentences.

Gary: You have to go, you still have to do the work to push yourself into that place. I think it kind of sort of shows you the way and shows you the door. If you lie about, you've got to, you got to take the tough steps and we'll walk through it. Yeah, I think perhaps for me and we like a lot of other people is yeah.

Gary: That's not always a natural thing. Yeah,

Gary: totally. [00:31:00] Um, yeah. So, and, and I don't know if you want to tell us a little bit about, um, your last ceremony. What sort of been going on, um, after the business sold. Um, and it didn't quite, it wasn't quite, as you expected, was it, um, it didn't feel quite the same as you were, you were thinking?

Gary: No, I mean, obviously, like I was, um, I had, uh, some OB I had some arbitrary goals that I want it to achieve and it was, like I said, they're arbitrary that. I want it to be in a certain position in life. All of a sudden achieved, you know, to achieve my, my goals I wanted to achieve and done them in fairly spectacular fashion, really.

Gary: Um, you know, Big amount of money you get in the bank and stuff like that in all those moments and thinking of only really nice moments, you know, and I'm obviously very grateful and very excited and, you know, I was able to do some nice things [00:32:00] and just, it was really, really good. But at the same time I kind of have this, um, overwhelming sense of I'm.

Gary: Sure. I wouldn't say, I would say sort of fed into a bit of a depression. Really. It was. And what was we were talking about earlier, but what, what was, was also different is on loaded on top of that depression was guilt because it was like, hang on a minute. Yeah a lot. You've got a lot here. You've been really lucky, you know, everything's falling into place for you and you know, you'll, you'll be miserable about it and it's a slide, you know, what the fuck.

Gary: And, um, so yeah, so it just started to feel, and it took a little while to I'm picky. And I think part of it was, I was knackered, you know, I think, uh, you know, she'd driven a 90 driven myself into the ground to get to the end point, but actually I was then starting, I'd stayed. The company that bought us, you're now kind of working for, you know, new people and figuring out how, and they want to see returns from the business as well as some like, oh, knack it, but then [00:33:00] I've got kind of continue on.

Gary: So I think part of the, I was like, it was probably while I was physically and mentally drained, but I think secondly, as well as despite the fact that my life had clearly changed for the better it's still changed. So you start to deal with this. Um, at different scenario probably had to deal with the fact that I've always been quite ambitious and okay.

Gary: One of the things about ambitious, ambitious people is you always kind of running for something. It's almost like, well, I've got it now. And it's a bit like a cat that catches a mouse is like all the fuck that I do with it now. Um, so I kind of, yeah, I was dealing with lots of, yeah, like different emotions around it.

Gary: And, um, I think maybe the biggest one was the fact that. Um, and, and I know that, uh, and I've only really started doing this more lately, but I've been reading, um, a book we've got the power of now. And it talks about this idea that we can, we have this ongoing narrative. It'll be, yeah, it'll be better when I do this.

Gary: It'll be better when I do that. And. Actually I've done it. Now I did [00:34:00] this thing and all of a sudden, always not better things didn't suddenly get better. And actually what it made me realize is that perhaps, maybe those things where, well, I'll deal with this issue, I'll deal with that issue. And, and it was almost a case of no, actually.

Gary: Uh, yeah. I've given myself all of the reasons to think that, yeah, this was all, if I achieve this, this will be okay. Uh, and it was almost I've achieved it as long as she's not. Okay. So I need to kind of deal with some of that shit now. Um, so I actually saw like a, like a coach for a little while and she was really good.

Gary: She really helped me, um, figure out what I wanted to do. She helped me figure out, um, Yeah, make a decision on how I want it to act and the things that I needed to change to make sure I was successful in this new role and this new lifestyle. Um, but I kind of knew, like I was going to go back and do some work and do I ask her again, but I want it to be in the right frame of mind.

Gary: So I went again and, um, yeah, some really powerful stuff came out. Um, So a lot about [00:35:00] kind of masculinity and compassion and add some good light, a good insights about my relationship with my dad, who was a bit of sort of unfair to, of like resentment for, and, um, you know, it just had this kind of vision about how.

Gary: You know, despite the fact men can be dicks a lot of the time and we do bad things. And, um, yeah, actually we will kind of, most of us got better night. I wanted to be decent human beings and you know, it's quite hard being a guy in it. I just have this incredible amount of compassion for like, you're not any lot me and my dad.

Gary: And, but it was just everybody, you know, and I'm the old man. And, uh, but it also put me into split perspective. Yeah, you could be quite compassionate and still be quite strong as well. And I think I'd always struggled with masculinity in that I was never, well, quite a big guy. I've never been like a kind of not aggressive or I've always been quite sort of chilled out.

Gary: Um, and, um, [00:36:00] yeah, and I sort of got this sort of new concept around how you could be described as a kind of a peaceful warrior. If you like. So I dealt with that and I felt like, and for me, when I was actually on, in the ceremony, I had this huge release of testosterone suffer, just walking around there, like a, like a big jungle cat or something like that.

Gary: It was, it was bizarre. So yeah. So definitely dealt with a lot of that stuff and, um, yeah, and it kind of, it's given me like a real different perspective. Helped me to understand like where I need to go next and how I need to be. But yeah, it's, every time I've been it's you've had, I've had a completely different perspective on the world.

Chris: Yeah. I've had similar sort of experiences around masculinity and. Kind of like carrying a lot of energy and being a man often and not sure what to do with it and carrying a lot of emotions that we don't know, not really taught how to [00:37:00] deal with either. Um, just can be a lot sometimes. Um,

yeah,

Gary: I think rightly so.

Gary: I think, you know, that being a white man, the slot, we've got a lot of privilege now. I think, I mean, most white men know that, uh,

Gary: And I think most men know that, you know, the world needs to level off a little bit and, you know, there's, there's work to be done to make the world a great place for, for every human being. But at the same time, it still doesn't make it, you know, it doesn't mean it's not tough to be a man. And I think you're right.

Gary: I think sometimes it's like, how am I supposed to be sensitive? Am I supposed to be a hunter gatherer? It's kind of figuring out, yeah. The role is a male in, in the modern world. Um, Yeah. And not, yeah. And, and not want any sympathy. It's just the fact that it is difficult when it's a difficult thing to figure out.

Gary: And, um, yeah, I think most men are trying to figure out and try and do the right thing. And I think we forget or sometimes feel guilty about the [00:38:00] fact that it's hard. Yeah. And, and, and we, we, don't like to admit that we sort of trying to figure out and let's be honest, we're all trying to do it on me, whether we were white men or whatever, like, you know, whatever human being we are.

Gary: I think we're all trying to figure out what it's all about. We're all on the path. Yeah. Um, so yeah, so I think it was that kind of outlaw. Yeah. A lot of compassion for there's a lot of men kicking around and it's, you know, trying to find it's quite difficult to figure out how to be. And, uh, Yeah. And just having compassion for myself and compassionate for, for everybody.

Gary: Yeah. Yeah.

Chris: Nice. Nice. Well, um, I think we'll wrap up there. Like thank you for sharing. Is there there's really appreciate it. Um, really good to hear. Um, I don't know if there's any final thoughts or any books or any, any resources on I ask or anything that you'd want to share with anyone.

Gary: No, I think, um, uh, I need like the gyro, if you're [00:39:00] kind of, uh, I guess not, not necessarily done a lot of read on Ayahuasca, like there was a Joe Rogan podcast.

Gary: If you choose stuff. I think there's a few on Ayahuasca, but I think if you typed in Ayahuasca and Joe Rogan. And he's a very modern man. The man, his name is, uh, you know, he's a high performer, but he talks about, you know, the spiritual energy and talks about plant medicine in a real kind of quite mainstream way.

Gary: Right. So if you feel that this could be a little bit out there and a bit too, a bit too spiritual for you, then that's a really good way to look at it. Um, and then, uh, that the power of now, um, yeah. Is it quite famous, but now the spirituality will. Yeah, it's kind of knocked me off, not normally on the house times reading it, but really a good way to, especially if you're a person that is kind of in your own head quite a lot, which is I think most people nowadays, but it just helps you have a different perspective on, on, [00:40:00] uh, on the, on the mind and yeah, and how that works.

Gary: But, um, but yeah, but yeah, there's always because I think ultimately I think I was interested in. I was talking to you earlier on, I I'd had a conversation with someone that had done, uh, some Tony Robbins events and associates, a mile away from an Ayahuasca retreat, but actually what comes up is very similar and it's um, yeah, I think whatever sort of self-improvement people, I think just asking yourself those questions is however you do it.

Gary: Whether it's podcast books, hypnotherapy sessions, I think just asking the question. It's just always a good place to stop.

Chris: Nice. Nice. Thank you so much for sharing with us. Um, yeah, I'll put the link to the book in on the Joe Rogan podcast on the show notes. Thank you very much.

Gary: Thank you.

Chris: Thanks for tuning in. And if you found it interesting, please do shat. And if you'd like to know more about [00:41:00] my hypnotherapy problems or. Coaching or mindfulness teaching, please visit chris-walton.com.